Avatar: The Last Airbender General Discussion Thread

Oh, man. I MOSTLY didn’t like that. Because of Sokka. Is he a main character? Then the show is already in trouble. Maybe they made him a bigger lout than usual here to drive the conflict, but that’s not good at all. For now I cannot stand any moment that jackass is onscreen.

I like Uncle though because he suggests people in the Fire Tribe are not all bad or all good. Unlike Sokka that is good messaging for a first episode.

I have misgivings already. 2 1/2 stars.

Sokka is a problem for me. I can’t enjoy the show with him in it. For some reason this show decided it would be a swell idea to bring back the 1980’s cartoons’ worst trope, “The Complainer Is Always Wrong” for modern audiences. How did something that stupid infest kiddie cartoons back then to begin with?

See, cartoons back then had “psychological consultants” (I shit you not about this) and their job was to handle the given toons’ kiddie messaging and morals. And because it was the 1980’s, notions of what was good and moral in psychiatry were very different than they are today. It’s why cartoons punished the independent thinker when normally that person ought to be the main hero.

Why has it made a return here? It adds nothing but false conflict for the characters and annoyance for the viewers.

One promising sign is Sokka getting the boat. This suggests that perhaps the show will start OFF Sokka as Brainy Smurf and eventually evolve him into a well-rounded person who learns from his mistakes. That BETTER be what is going on. The show is so beloved I can’t imagine WHY fans would like it unless that’s what was going on. 2 1/2 stars.

First episode I liked.

What helped was Sokka telling Katara “You can’t protect him forever”. I liked it because that was a complaint that was actually right.

Also interesting is the Fire Nation political intrigue, culminating with Uncle telling General Zhao after his loss that Zuko is ten times the man he is. Very rewarding stuff, and considering this comes from the bad guys’ side of the aisle, very promising too.

I am a bit relieved honestly. I can work with this. 4 stars.

Sucky episode.

Sakko’s sexist bullshit makes him impossible to like.

I also found the chibis annoying too. 1 1/2 stars.

On the surface, the episode is pleasant and enjoyable.

But it bugs the crap out of me.

It’s them playing the old king being the boy Aang befriended a hundred years ago as a surprise. I’m sorry, I was told ahead of time storytelling was a strong point for this series. And THAT’S its idea of a twist? The ONLY obvious answer?

Lest you think I’m beating up a kiddie show JUST for making the mystery easy enough for kids to solve, the truth is a TON of kids shows I’ve seen have their share of great twists and rugpulls. Batman: The Animated Series, Justice League Unlimited, Gargoyles, Wolverine And The X-Men, She-Ra And The Princesses Of Power, Transformers Prime, TMNT 2003. A cartoon being made for kids doesn’t preclude it from doing unexpected plot twists.

I mean, yeah, it’s early, but shouldn’t that actually be the point where a show like this tries its hardest?

I am not feeling this show at all. As beloved as it is, I’ve seen five episodes and literally only liked one of them. I’m thankful I didn’t watch this over the air. I fear I might have gotten on people’s nerves. Or worse, maybe my taste back then was actually JUST bad enough for me to make excuses for a show like this.

It’s the second thing that is most shameful, the most likely to be true, and the REAL reason I’m glad to be watching it NOW with this kind of distance. I don’t see how me in this specific fandom would have ended well. 2 1/2 stars.

It's arch, unsubtle, and yes, cringe. The poorly written show this most reminds me of is the original Teen Titans. This will be a slog.

I'm not saying I regret getting into it, but this is the point where I doubt I will very much like it.

George Takei has been cast in better roles but it's amusing when he orders whoever he hasn't thrown overboard yet to search the ship.

Although the idea that a guy who works on a barge can't swim isn't simply unlikely. It's stupid.

Sigh. Another episode crossed off. 6 episodes and so far only one that I've liked. 2 stars.

This was quite good, which at this point is quite a relief to me.

It's interesting to hear the Earth Nation's impressions of Uncle. For us he's wise, and even gentle. To them, he's a war criminal, and not all that impressive.

My favorite part of the episode is my favorite because it's not spelled out. Zuko has a VERY real opportunity to catch up with Aang near the end of the episode. And he chooses to save Uncle instead. I love that the significance of that is never remarked upon, and Zuko did a good thing just because, and will never get credit for it. I'm crazy about that kind of storytelling, and the previous episodes were so arch and obvious, there wasn't much of that present at all.

Sokka suggesting they needed supplies and money at the end suggests that in this case, the Complainer was actually right.

I am very glad this was a great episode. 4 1/2 stars.

That was wonderful. The scope of the story is epic and the beautiful animation really leans into the anime.

I love that when Zuko feels he must disobey Uncle he says "I'm sorry, Uncle." Villain nuance: I'm here for it.

Zuko says his father will understand him violating the banishment and Uncle, canny guy that he is, blatantly tells him he's giving his father too much credit. He's not an understanding guy.

Another bit of nuance was the fire monk helping Aang. I thought that was cool.

And it turns out the "Previously on Avatar" Narrator is Avatar Roku. Good twist and pretty much the first good twist the show surprised me with.

I think story of the week episodes are a weak point, but when they get into the arc and mythology in-depth, that's when things come together. 4 1/2 stars.

One of the very good things about the episode is that in the action-packed climax, the show adds complication after complication. Many shows for adults are no good at this, so seeing one for kids able to handle it is indeed impressive.

I wonder why Zuko humors Uncle at all. At first I thought there was a larger wisdom attached to the mission, but no, Uncle is sincerely that dumb. Either way, Zuko’s indulgences, as crazy as they clearly make him, mean he’s actually a good nephew.

Interesting play with Katara’s necklace. It didn’t work. For this. Is there another negotiation it WOULD work for? Unclear.

Katara is mean in the episode but I get why she’s mad. In fact, I’m disappointed the episode itself didn’t articulate it in so many words. But Waterbending is the specific thing that makes Katara feel special. Aang being able to do it so effortlessly is actually diminishing the biggest thing about herself she identifies with. Maybe the show isn’t psychologically complex enough to spell it out precisely that way. But I believe it COULD have.

Solid. 4 1/2 stars.

Super interesting concept with a shoddy as hell execution.

One of the drawbacks to the Complainer always being wrong, is when they are right, nobody listens. I like that the show allowed Sokka to be right. There is actually nothing wrong with being cautious.

While I’ll concede Sokka is “The Boy Who Cried Shitty Advice” the truth is a lot of what he was claiming wasn’t mere advice. He had seen Jet do shady, violent things with his own eyes. And regardless of the fact that Sokka usually sucks, he’s still Katara’s brother. It speaks extremely poorly of her she takes a complete stranger’s word over her own brother.

Aang is not off the hook, but when it’s clear Jet is bad news he instantly believes his own eyes. The fact that Katara practically has to have the threat of Sokka being killed thrown in her face before she changes her mind speaks very badly of her.

This is not the only shoddy facet of the execution. The next problem is something that plagued ALL cartoons of this era, even the good ones like Justice League Unlimited. But Jet is shady. And yet his shadiness is written as a surprise. And yet the animators make his facial expressions and demeanor utterly untrustworthy and sinister looking. Hell, the actual voice performance doesn’t even support that! But for some reason, if a character is secretly bad, the animators of that day and age had NO fucking clue how to hide that fact. Hell, they aren’t even aware they SHOULD hide that fact. Frozen got a lot of shit for Hans but at least that movie had enough sense to make his expressions read good OR evil depending on if you actually knew the reveal. It turns out that shit is actually HARD for animators and was an actual victory. Who knew?

I think it’s important to explore why Katara doesn’t trust Sokka’s judgment and also that urging caution is actually a wise strategy. The problem is the episode itself is completely hamfisted when imparting that moral, and worse, the animation itself works against the entire story. Calling this episode an interesting failure. 2 stars.

For most of the episode I found it mediocre. By the end, I deemed it terrible, filled with syrupy clichés and poor dialogue. It’s just the freaking worst.

That being said, the late Rene Auberjonois wasn’t just a genre legend. He was also a voice-over legend. It was good to hear him. And the animation in the flashbacks was kinda trippy too. 1 1/2 stars.

Best episode so far.

It proves something I’ve always believed, but few people agree with me about. A conversation and exchange of stories can be just as interesting and riveting as an action sequence. Cartoons and comics ESPECIALLY frown on this, but the storm being the place for the characters to swap backstories shows I’m onto something.

Aang’s story is all right, but nothing Earth-shattering. It’s the idea that Zuko’s exile came about for defending the Fire Nation’s troops from sociopathic orders, and his shitty father essentially punished him for being right makes the correct impression with the Captain who has been increasingly frustrated with him. And when Zuko saves his life in the storm I see exactly why Uncle refuses to write the kid off, despite his inability to make friends and allies.

And you know that shit is refreshing to show for the bad guys, right? It also means the Fire Nation AREN’T the bad guys. If they ever were, they aren’t currently. Everyone is fighting a hundred year war their ancestors started that nobody even remembers what it’s about. Interesting.

My favorite episode as of now. 5 stars.

Here’s something interesting: Zuko being the Masked Thief / The Blue Spirit was one of the greatest surprise twists I’ve seen in a LONG time. Keep in mind, I just binged Breaking Bad, The Wire, and Orphan Black. Ultimately the stakes were much lower for that twist than any of the biggies on those shows, but absolutely NONE of those show’s biggest surprises actually shocked me all that much, much less pleasantly so.

Why did this shock me? Two major reasons. Ultimately, I think they are bad reasons, but hopefully going forward I can remember this episode.

The first reason is because I don’t fully like or trust the show. I had absolutely NO idea it was capable of a twist like this. Its last big mystery involved the culprit being the literal ONLY suspect. It doing good is a pleasant surprise, but definitely NOT consistent with the earlier episodes. This show is improving as it goes along.

The second reason isn’t the show’s fault. It’s kiddie cartoons in general, specifically the shit done by Greg Weisman. Although I frankly assumed a similar level of bullshit as Glen Murikami did on Teen Titans too. Edgy kiddie action toons will always have a masked character (and unless you are as incompetent as Teen Titans), they’ll reveal it in a future episode as being someone from an earlier episode who didn’t appear then, or a person in a future episode where the masked person is absent. Basically masked rogues give shitty storytellers license to dick around. And once the reveal is made it gives Weisman and people like him bragging rights to describe every last in and out of the twist, even though that is not remotely anything heroes would ever be calmly discussing and revealing to the villain during the climactic battle.

It’s an excuse for bullshit, and the kind of bullshit a creator like Weisman believes he deserves praise for. The sick fucking thing is he always gets it. THAT’S the thing I truly don’t get. Usually when a magician does a trick in front of an audience, they don’t do it again for that same audience. Because even if the audience can’t figure it out the second time, just seeing it again is less impressive. That is why Weisman’s entire career has been coasting on the twist from “The Gathering” in Gargoyles. He’s never topped it, much less matched it, and he never will. And we all know how the bit works because he’s repeated it so many times. Can I say this complex shit isn’t impressive the second, third, fourth, and umpteenth time? It’s fucking boring, is what it is.

I loved the bit of Masked Zuko holding a knife to Aang so he can escape the guards (because they want Aang alive). It instantly makes you question who would do that to the person they are “rescuing”. Zuko answers THAT mystery tidily too.

I was prepared to be bored, and the episode not only immediately answered the question of the Masked Thief, but the actual culprit fit into the scenario through both motivations and abilities better than any of Weisman’s bullshit ever did. To be truthful, that’s how a mystery SHOULD work, and maybe if the kiddie toon landscape weren’t so currently awful my praise would still be real, but perhaps not actually high. But am I used to being bullshitted, and I wasn’t here.

It’s a good fucking feeling is what it is. Nicely done. The show genuinely surprised me and in a good way. Been a long time since that’s happened. 5 stars.

I was a skeptic all throughout the episode. A LOT of things were hitting me wrong, both narratively and philosophically. But that last episode gave them a little leeway with me, and as dumb as things were maybe it would turn out okay.

Aside from the ultimate messaging being bullshit I knew this was getting a negative grade when the last line of the episode was “Floozy”. Made the review easier at any rate.

Major plothole: Why didn’t the village dig those trenches for the lava BEFORE the volcano erupted? If they knew that was needed why didn’t they already exist for preventative reasons? Answer: Bad writing.

So we’ve turned into a will they or won’t they between Aang and Katara. The reason I dislike the idea is because all shows prolong that shit by introducing a third character, someone who either crushes on Aang or Katara that the audience is supposed to hate for having the audacity of wrecking our ‘ship.

Two things to note about that: It’s why I hate love triangles and have not seen a SINGLE one in any piece of fiction that made it better. They don’t ALWAYS make things worse, but usually, and never has it been something that actually elevated the material. On their best day they are a frustrating. More generally speaking, they have the hero with the new love interest sort of subconsciously dig the new person to make their REAL ‘ship jealous. The “benefit” most love triangles bring most shows is it turns the hero into a total user of the new person and asks US to hate the new person for the hero doing that to them.

The other thing to note is that the show shocked me with the masked thief / Blue Spirit. I could totally be wrong a love triangle is in the future. It might be a rare project smart enough not to introduce one.

But to be truthful I’m not counting on it. I also am 99.99% certain that if it happens, that crap will go down JUST the way I said. The biggest thing this show could EVER do to shock me is to make that fucking shitty trope work. But they won’t because I’ve NEVER seen a project make it work and this won’t be the first. 1 1/2 stars.

Another episode I was iffy on for narrative and moral reasons, but when Bato is talking to Katara and Sokka about the pain of losing his tribe and they (Sokka’s idea actually) decide to go back to Aang, I’m like, “Okay, that works.” I’ll allow it.

The episode is imperfect and still getting a passing grade. 3 stars.

Aang is super annoying in this episode, but that’s kind of the point. It makes Sokka’s rage at his burning Katara justified for the first time ever.

The reason Aang is annoying is because unlike Mr. Miyagi, Jeong Jeong is completely transparent about the centering lessons he teaches. He’s not tricking Aang into learning muscle memory without realizing it. In fact the lesson is firebending is DANGEROUS, and to attempt it before learning how to center yourself is suicide. Zuko browbeat the poor guy into teaching Aang BEFORE he properly learned waterbending and earthbending, but Aang refusing to center himself anyways is infuriating.

And his explanations of the danger don’t just make sense from a literal standpoint. They are a good explanation for why the Fire Nation was corrupted to begin with, and suggest that the people there aren’t inherently bad. But the element they work with has very little use besides heat and destruction. The good it can do is minimal and the harm immeasurable. And mastering it is nearly impossible if you don’t understand that.

Never understood how much I needed a smackdown between Aang and Zhao until we got it. Always considered that dude an irrelevant loser, and more Zuko’s thorn than the Avatar’s, but if the series is slowly suggesting Zuko isn’t all bad, it’s quickly suggesting maybe Zhao is. Maybe he is the real danger and maybe even the future Fire Lord Aang must defeat.

Favorable impression. Although Aang was being a little shit. 3 1/2 stars.

That is what is known as an “Oh shit!” ending. Legit.

I liked the rest of the episode too. It’s really cool Teo is in a wheelchair (or airchair) and this is a much more fitting role for Rene Auberjonois than his earlier stint in the season.

Aang’s disgust at the new temple is fascinating because he’s not entirely right. But the interesting thing is he’s not entirely wrong either, which is what makes it a good debate.

It’s really cool Sokka is good at science. Not just because he ought to be good at SOMETHING by this point, but because his role as the skeptic and complainer very much feeds into that. But unlike Brainy Smurf it does so in a positive way, which is refreshing. The Smurfs used Brainy to say why science and intelligence are bad. This show uses skepticism to show how it can lead to scientific discoveries. MUCH more valuable use of complaining.

I dug it. Also, Oh shit! 4 stars.

Problematic. Not for political reasons per se, but when the actual conflict of the episode is “Girls can’t be Waterbenders!” it means the entire conflict is fucking stupid. And pointless.

The stuff with Zuko and Uncle’s long con was MUCH more successful. I also have to wonder if it’s even necessary, or just the finishing touch on taking Zhao down. Because they KNOW he tried to murder the Fire Lord’s son. Despite Roku’s banishment, how does Zhao actually think the Fire Lord learning that would play in Peoria? I get the need for the subterfuge to potentially bring back the Avatar themselves, but as far as I’m concerned, where the conflict with Zhao goes, they already won.

Zhao made the deadliest mistake somebody planning an assassination could ever make: He missed. He’s fucked. 3 stars.

I am not upset by that ending at all. Why not?

Because seeing Zuko agonizingly holding his breath for minutes on end under the freezing water says something about Zuko: He wants this. More than anything. And considering the amount of suffering he willingly endures for it, I want him to have it.

Face it, Aang never remotely takes his responsibilities this seriously. Ever. Let Zuko win this one.

Uncle telling Zuko he sees him as his son and Zuko affirming the feeling is mutual is why I am on his side. Not the Fire Nation’s, but I don’t believe the Fire Nation is actually on either Zuko or Uncle’s side. In fact, I imagine that is going to be a major theme in the next couple of seasons.

I offered a bold, and probably unpopular opinion, about love triangles earlier. Now the one introduced here isn’t between Aang and Katara but between Sokka and a couple of new characters. Let me ask you this: Was I wrong just going by the show’s VERY first example to go out on that limb before? Did ANY part of that make the episode or the series better?

I would stop having iron-clad opinions about shitty fiction, if shitty fiction stopped spending every waking moment insisting I have to be right. You think my rightness pleases me? It doesn’t. I would far prefer less shitty fiction.

Some general series thoughts heading into the finale. The war motif for the finale makes me uneasy. Because this is a kids show that has thus far, even in this episode, refused to kill anybody. Even TV-Y7 Star Wars cartoons understood, you show war, you have to show death. Even if you undersell it to not upset younger viewers. So far, I am not getting good vibes about this.

These Eastern influences in the animation and pacing are very evident (and beautiful) in this finale. I also take note how rare it actually is for a good drama cartoon to be an original IP and not a remake or spin-off of an existing franchise. That was rare when this show aired (just Ben 10 could claim the same) and it’s almost unheard of today.

I thought most of the episode (besides the love triangle) worked, but I have misgivings about a Game of Thrones battle where no-one is permitted to die. We’ll see in the finale whether I’m worrying for nothing. I hope so. 3 1/2 stars.

Let’s take stock.

I think we are in good shape. I’m not a full believer in the show, but I’m rooting for it. For me this show can be very good when it chooses to be. The problem is it sometimes chooses not to be. I want to believe the fact that things have been improving as they go along is an actual trend and not an outlier. Considering how beloved the show is, I consider that far likelier than it isn’t.

Mark Hamill is the Fire Lord because if you cast Hamill you Go Big Or Go Home.

For the war episode only a single person EXPLICITLY died. But Yue was the RIGHT person, so I accept it. If they are gonna save it for sacrifices like that, I will complain very little about stuff like that.

The series deserves mad props for Koh. Obviously when it comes to adult animation like Castlevania, scarier and freakier stuff exists. But for kids show, only the Jurassic World cartoon spin-offs are scarier than this, and I frankly can’t think of a hand-drawn kiddie show that actually is. Koh is the stuff of nightmare fuel, in both concept and visual appearance, and as scary as he looks and feels, the show manages that all without violating the TV-Y7 restrictions it is under. Quite impressive.

Also impressed that Aang got the best of him. Pleasantly surprised, in fact.

I’m going to choose to believe in this show. It has definite faults and visible flaws, but so do a lot of other great shows. Justice League: Season One sucked donkey balls and Justice League Unlimited is the single greatest cartoon ever produced for television. I’m willing to be amazed as the series goes along and gets better bit by bit. 4 1/2 stars.