[Sticky] MCU General Discussion

Delays, delays, delays.  But a pandemic and two labor strikes will do that.

I'm hoping and praying there are no disasters between now and July.  Assuming there's no earthquakes or tsunamis, Marvel Studios will probably be at Comic Con and we'll get some questions answered.

The last time they were there, they were pretty adamant that the Fantastic Four will be the first movie in Phase 6.  If they still feel that way, and the above release dates hold up, that means Thunderbolts and Blade are now pushed from Phase 5 into Phase 6. Take that for what it's worth.

I don't want to get into the Kang/Jonathan Majors mess.

I suspect Shang-Chi 2 and Spider-Man 4 will be released in Phase 6.  But who the heck knows.

We'll see.

MIKE!!!!! 😀 

If I've been reading things right, Deadpool 3 is now the only MCU movie this year and I'm guessing Agatha and, maybe, one more show on Disney+ with three Sony Spider-projects: Madame Web, Kraven the Hunter and Venom 3.

Posted by: @jim_abell

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MIKE!!!!! 😀 

If I've been reading things right, Deadpool 3 is now the only MCU movie this year and I'm guessing Agatha and, maybe, one more show on Disney+ with three Sony Spider-projects: Madame Web, Kraven the Hunter and Venom 3.

 

Hello, sir.  So here is the agenda for Marvel, DC and Sony superhero movies this year (And yes, it's pretty sparse.  Part of it's because of the strikes, and part of it is DC totally rebooting and Marvel retooling). 

Madame Web - Sony - February 14th (Valentines Day!  How sweet!)

Deadpool 3 - Marvel Studios - July 26th

Kraven The Hunter - Sony - August 30th 

Joker: Folie a Deux - DC Elseworlds - October 4th

Venom 3 - Sony - November 8th

For the small screen, we'll have Agatha: The Darkhold Diaries and X-Men '97.  MAYBE Ironheart.  On the DC side, Creature Commandos (An animated series and the first entry in DCU's Gods and Monsters slate) MAY be out late in the year.

So yes.  2024 is pretty sparse.  But maybe a small break is what the superhero genre needs.  Give folks a chance to breathe.  Maybe absence will make the heart grow fonder.

And then stand by, because 2025 is going to be jam packed.  For Marvel, there'll be Captain America 4, The Fantastic Four, Thunderbolts and Blade.  Daredevil Born Again will be on the small screen.  For DC, Superman Legacy and the Batman II. 

Again ... ALL SUBJECT TO CHANGE.

But if everything holds up, 2025 will be a fun year.

Because I spend way too much time thinking about this (Just ask my girlfriend), a few more observations.

The Netflix Marvel shows are now canon and part of the official timeline.  That's cool.  For the most part, they were pretty good.  I think Marvel needs more street level, gritty shows.  Not everything has to have Universe ending stakes.

But what about that pesky five year blip?  Luke Cage Season 2, Iron Fist Season 2, Daredevil Season 3 and Punisher Season 2 all came out between Infinity War and Endgame.  Wouldn't the fact that half the world's population getting snapped out of existence been worth at least a mention?  Well ... yeah.  But there's an easy way around that.  Just put up a disclaimer at the beginning of each of those shows saying this series takes place before the events of Avengers: Infinity War. 

And there was really nothing in the Netflix shows that would have had much of an impact on the MCU.  The Defenders saga was much smaller in scale.  The stories took place mostly in New York and they were more personal.  It's not like they blew up Chicago or LA or something.  So yes, the Netflix shows can blend in pretty seamlessly with the MCU.  Wise choice by Marvel to do this.

What other shows can be considered canon?  Both seasons of Agent Carter for sure.  James D'Arcy's Jarvis is the first character that was originally from a Marvel TV series to appear in an MCU film.  Boom.  Agent Carter is part of the MCU.

Agents of SHIELD?  MAYBE the first three seasons.  But that's a big maybe.  I get that Phil Coulson, Nick Fury, Maria Hill, Jasper Sitwell and the Lady Sif were all on the show.  BUT ... none of the characters original to the show were EVER in the movies.  And yes, those first three seasons referenced the events of the Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron pretty heavily.  But the films never acknowledged the show.  It never happened.  And then after season 3 the show pretty much stopped referencing the current movies at all.  And then you've got two different Darkholds.  And the fact that the show just ignored the blip.  And that pretty much puts the nail in the coffin.  No SHIELD in the MCU, unless there are multiverse shenanigans. 

Inhumans?  God no.

Cloak and Dagger?  Runaways?  Hellstrom?  Well, anything's possible.  Cloak and Dagger was actually pretty good.  I would certainly have no objections to Marvel making these shows canon, but it ain't up to me. 

The two X-Men shows, Legion and The Gifted?  Do NOT hold your breath. 

That's pretty much it.  I'm just going to say that I am REALLY looking forward to epic street level stories like Devil's Reign and Gangwar done by the Marvel Studios brain trust.  Also, a Spidey-Daredevil team up is an absolute must.  How could they not do it? 

One thing makes me sad: if all three seasons of Daredevil are canon, that means we'll never see the Marvel Studios take on The Elektra Saga, one of the greatest Marvel Comics stories of all time.  I really wish Marvel had the film and TV rights to all of their characters right from the get-go.  But they didn't and we'll just have to live with it.  But one thing I've learned: Never say never.  If the rumors of Secert Wars resulting in a reboot are true, you never know what the future may bring. 

Good take as always, SD. Good to see you. 

You are right about Agents Of SHIELD being able to be ignored for ignoring the Blip. No Blip, it's not canon. 

However I'll accept Daredevil as canon (even though I hated it) but the rest of the Netflix stuff being considered so is problematic. Luke Cage in particular has referenced both Obama and Trump. I think that pushes it out of canon. And doing that makes everything else suspect too. 

I believe I read somewhere that Jeph Loeb claims ALL the Marvel Television stuff (except AoS) takes place BEFORE the Blip. Whether the rest of it is canon is debatable, but that was the explanation. 

@matt-zimmer All well and fine, but at the end of the day it does not matter what you think or I think or Joe Blow down the street thinks.  The fact is Marvel Studios considers the Netflix shows canon (Obama, Trump and a really bad take on Elektra aside) so that's that.  We can voice our opinions but it won't change anything. 

I'm sad about Elektra but overall I'm on board with the idea.  The Netflix shows were pretty good and Marvel really needs some smaller scale street level type stories.  Ideally what I'd like to see is all the Defender's, The Punisher, Spider-Man, Shang-Chi, the Yelena Belova Black Widow and those two kids from the Freeform series reprise their roles as Cloak and Dagger for a Marvel Knights show.  The premise being The Kingpin becomes Mayor of New York and immediately begins to crackdown on "Vigilantes".  Of course our boy Wilson would form his own villainous version of the Avengers made up of, say, the Vulture, the Abomination, Helmut Zemo, Steel Serpent, Jigsaw, Bullseye and others I'm forgetting right now.  The Kingpin has the potential to be to the Marvel Knights what Thanos was to the Avengers. 

But, like I said, I don't always get what I want.  We'll just have to wait and see what the future brings.

Good philosophy. 

Here's the canonicity of the Netflix stuff: 

ht tps://www.redd it.com/r/MarvelStudios Spoilers/comments/19ae94v/cosmic_circus_podcast_echo_daredevil_born_again/

Slipped under the radar a bit, but Alex Perez dropped quite a few details about Echo and Daredevil on the latest episode of the <a href=" removed link " target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow ugc">Cosmic Circus Podcast.

• Echo was a "pilot project" whose response has led to Marvel pursuing more mature projects

• An episode was cut that focused on Bonnie which had a conflicting tone that focused less on Echo, which would have felt like filler

• Echo's story was supposed to tie more into Daredevil: Born Again, connecting directly into what it was originally going to be, but not what it will be now. Had they not cut it, it would have made episodes of DD:BA feel more like a prequel until the midseason where it would have caught up.

• More of the criminal underworld will be seen going forward. As Mayor, Fisk will have to give up on some of his assets as he becomes under more public and federal scrutiny. These assets will be taken over by various corners of the criminal underworld, who have for the most part not yet been introduced.

• One of these will be a villain in Spider-Man 4, who has never before been adapted into live action.

• The Defenders series are "canon but isolated" meaning they are canon, but most of those stories won't be addressed as Marvel will recast certain characters and adapt certain stories. The whole thing is still a work in progress, as Marvel is still figuring out what will be referenced in Born Again and what will be discarded as if it never happened.

  • As I understood it, the ends of series like Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, and Iron Fist may just not be picked up on even if/when the characters return, but will remain canon even if the characters are recast.

  • Daredevil is the series Marvel aims to keep the most of, while parts of the other series may be "omitted" so they can be readapted (although that last part might be me misinterpreting things)

• Since Marvel hasn't yet figured everything out regarding the Defenders series being canon, Vincent D'Onofrio's recent comments aren't exactly correct and might hurt Marvel in the long run as people expect something different than what ends up happening.

• Foggy and Karen were always going to be in Born Again, but not to the extent that they will be now.

  • He hints that the plan to kill them off is no longer the case and they will be more involved.

• Born Again is less of a Season 4, but more Marvel doing their own thing based on what Marvel Television already established and going from there.

SPIDER-MONDAYS!

Apparently Sony is trying to make back some of their Madam Web loss in April, May and June as they're going to do a weekly Monday night showing of each of the live-action Spider-Man films.

4/15 - Spider-Man

4/22 - Spider-Man 2

4/29 - Spider-Man 3

5/6 - The Amazing Spider-Man

5/13 - The Amazing Spider-Man 2

5/20 - Spider-Man: Homecoming

5/27 - Spider-Man: Far From Home

6/3 - Spider-Man: No Way Home

Kind of surprised that they aren't including the Spider-Verse movies being the fan-favorites that they are and would've expected the Venom films, as well, to try and hype up The Last Dance a little...